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If this game series still has fans, then let's all ask for one last thing. Stainless how about you give us the source code?

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MrDeviance's picture
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If this game series still has fans, then let's all ask for one last thing. Stainless how about you give us the source code?
#1 Submitted: Thu, 27/09/2018 - 21:29

Maybe I am the only crazy guy that still visits this forum out of reflex, as it seems nobody else bothers with this dead forum.
But if this game series was ever good and if we all truly think we could have done better than Stainless, then how about we fix the game ourselves from scratch.
What does Stainless have to lose? They already lost everything with this latest game, so I don't really see any real benefit in keeping the source code to themselves at this point.

Why not simply release the source code for their latest build that they still have of the game along with all of the assets and maybe some older builds too from back when the pre-alpha game had so much better damage for it's cars and just let us the fans and the modders, fix the game from scratch and try to make it the way we think it would make sense to be.
We can all do our small part to fix it the best we can, with no time constraints and with the utmost passion.
If the community won't bother fixing it either, then there's truly no more hope for this series.

The benefit I can see out of such a move would be the Resurrection in interest for this series.
I don't really get it but to me it seems that the whole carmageddon community has died in the last 2 years.
Maybe I overestimated carmageddon's influence and importance in our society but to me it seemed like a game series that could at least keep a core fanbase alive even after the death of stainless itself, just like doom and duke nukem still manage to have fans interested in these games and in modding or fixing them to this day.
I am in denial here and I just can't accept that all of this community forgot about how awesome carmageddon 1 and 2 used to be and still are to this day.
Reincarnation and Max Damage were flops but this doesn't mean we should all give up on this series entirely.
There is still potential in a fan made carmageddon game, if only Stainless wakes up and gives us a green light, maybe something will get born out of this.

Edited by: MrDeviance on 27/09/2018 - 21:42
flykas's picture
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Submitted: Fri, 28/09/2018 - 07:30

Yeah I visit this page out of reflex too sometimes.

I think it would be a good idea if there is someone interested who knows how to do it. Cuz I feel the code that they did is really very impressive, just some things need to be adjusted to get the full potential and this would be kinds of playground game for many years to come (like C2 or Beamng).

But I also still hope that Stainless aren't done with this franchise. On the other hand, what can they do, they still have to cater to the audience who can't be bothered to learn to drive and be good at it, so I guess the only way to go would be mods.

AlexTSK's picture
I was in the War!
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Submitted: Fri, 28/09/2018 - 08:38

I'm just a plebby artist, what am I supposed to do with the source code?

Trent's picture
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Submitted: Fri, 28/09/2018 - 09:07

Not going to happen.For a start the game's source isn't just for the game so it would need every reference to other projects, such as Magic, removed and everything fully tested to make sure nothing broke, which is a massive job. Then there's the whole issue that they use licensed middleware such as Umbra and Yebis which would need to be removed or else be in breach of contract and they're pretty core to the game. Then there's the fact their entire build pipeline would need to be replicated to build the game properly and I'm pretty sure they use licensed software in their build pipeline so it would either need to be entirely remade on opensource equivalents or anyone who wanted to build the game would need to buy licenses to the software and set it all up themselves.

Games generally aren't like they were in the old days of Quake anymore where the source code is a self contained entity which can be just given out and recompiled with little fuss, they're monstrosities of intertwining systems under different licenses from different companies. Even UE4, which has the source released in a closed, controlled fashion to those paying a subscription, took a huge amount of work for Epic's dev teams (of which multiple worked on it) and legal team to get all the different parts able to by licensed under that subscription. Complete open sourcing of that would be an entirely different kettle of fish. C:MD's source would be even more of a complicated situation than UE4 because it was never intended to be licensed out to third parties in the first place, let alone open sourced.

If anyone wants to "fix" the game then there's a shit ton which can be done even without the source code which is about a billion times simpler than the things which need the source code to fix. Clearly there's loads of modders eager to fix the game as everyone is releasing tweaks and fixes for all the bits we have access to, right?

Fr0nt's picture
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Submitted: Fri, 28/09/2018 - 09:19

yes good idea... cant wait for C:mrD edition! looking forward to it

CzechDeath's picture
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Submitted: Fri, 28/09/2018 - 11:00

Well it is crickets and frogs over here.

With exception of you of course.

Imagine you are a driver of a bus. And there is one loud passenger going: "THE BUS IS CRASHING RIGHT NOW, WE ALL GONNA DIE! i TOLD YOU ALL NOT TO RIDE THIS BUS, BUT DID YOU LISTEN? NO! I TRIED TO SAVE YOU, IT WAS BUILT BY KRETENS AND THE DRIVER DOES NOT WHAT HE'S DOING!"

When suddenly he goes "GIVE ME BLUEPRINTS TO THIS BUS SO I CAN FIX IT!"

I don't think you would want to even let that kid look at the steering wheel, let alone let him poke under the hood.

STShotgun's picture
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Submitted: Fri, 28/09/2018 - 18:22

Yeah I think at this point C:MD is pretty much a lost cause. If anything, wouldn't it be better if Carma 1 and 2 had their source code released? Obviously it depends if they even still have the source code and are able to sort out the legal troubles with it, and then it depends if anyone will take the time to develop anything with the source.

But hey, source ports for 1 and 2 with all the fixes and improvements that comes with the treatment is a nice dream at least :p

Also another thing which I'm guessing will be easier for them to sort out, I would love it if Stainless uploaded the old public pre-alphas for C:R as optional builds you can opt into on Steam.

Mainly because, in my opinion, it was the only time when the new Carma had car combat that was actually any fun. I remember enjoying it back then despite the awful performance, bugs and lack of content, but after looking at old videos of the pre-alphas on YT, it actually still looks damn good. Definitely 10x better than in the final game (even after modding C:R/MD for ages and doing all sorts of balancing tweaks - it just can't be saved), so yeah, would be nice to try the old builds again.

Edited by: STShotgun on Fri, 28/09/2018 - 18:23

"I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass. And I'm all out of ass."

C:R & C:MD Compilation - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7FrYLN6Bfg
Modding thread: http://www.carmageddon.com/forum/topic/29467

Psyrgery's picture
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Submitted: Sat, 29/09/2018 - 14:12

I'd just port the old games to consoles for a quick buck.

How feasible would that be Trent?

Carma1 was already ported to mobiles, consoles would easily handle that game

Max is back. Let there be blood and motor oil

Trent's picture
I was in the War!
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Submitted: Sun, 30/09/2018 - 20:21

Porting the mobile version of C1 to consoles shouldn't be toooo big a job as it uses the same base engine as Max Damage ans Duels so theoretically cross-platform support would already be available. The key issues would be related to platform integration in the games (e.g. controllers, online systems, etc. in place of the mobile platform stuff), probably shader adjustments depending on how platform agnostic their shader compilation pipeline is and then general QA and cert work.

Porting the original games though? Not a chance in hell. They'd need to be remakes much like the mobile C1 was. For a start the source code, if it's even still complete and compilable, is ancient and nothing like what modern game code should be. They were designed for software rendering on a rendering engine which had completely different ideas about 3d than what modern hardware has ended up as, so it'd need to be gutted and replaced. The base system was designed to run in the world of DOS and Win 95 , archaic system design compared to what modern systems expect. Remaking the games using Beelzebub (or even Unity or Unreal) would no doubt be a shit load less painful than porting the old code

Then there's the content side of things: all the textures are terribly low resolution and designed to look good in limited pallete software rendering, they'd need to be draw overs like stainless did for mobile C1. Levels would need some fixes and adjustments, again like the did with C1 mobile.

Then there's tying all the extra bits in around it like achievements, etc. Obviously it's all less work than designing a brand new game from scratch, but still not exactly a quick and easy money earner. Even C1 mobile want quick and easy and that was mostly already working when they started the project as it had a lot done already for the gizmodo version they based it on.

Privata's picture
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Submitted: Tue, 02/10/2018 - 00:08

I doubt they are finished with Carmageddon.
Wishful thinking perhaps.

The best they could do is give there blessing on a fan made spiritual sequel of sorts.
A open source Carmageddon clone would be a lot of work.

I wish Stainless gave Carnageddon the niche sim treatment in terms of DLCs as I would pay for new maps and cars and even game modes.

Or at the very least, if the series is to end then maybe unlock modding support to its fullest.
I dont know about everyone else but I dont much care for leaderbords, and save protection I rather be able to add and remove anything without locking myself out of saving and option changes.

CzechDeath's picture
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Submitted: Tue, 02/10/2018 - 09:47

Yea I think it is pretty tricky. Situation they are in is inherently hidden from us, it is impossible for us fans to know and thus we base our assumptions on other assumptions. Here are mine.

Continuing Carmageddon brand would make sense from perspective of Stainless working pretty hard not only to win their brand back, but also to create new addition and bring beloved game up to date for old and new audiences. It would be shame to just throw it away and make another new brand in carmageddon spirit, as Carmageddon brand has value in recognition and nostalgia.

That recognition is "stained" =D, partially by legic problems and partially by wild imaginations of fans who expected impossible in their heads only to have their dreams inevidebly clash with reality, which is always fault on side of the individual, however it still does project out on sales and promoting or boycoting by "word of mouth" (?)

Nostalgia on the other hand. I know only 2 games that managed to hit the spot were they sutisfied old and new fans. DOOM2016 and HITMAN:World of assassination. Everyone else either did not attract new fans or alienated old. and in the worse case did both. Looking at you DUKE. Not easy thing to do at all.

DLCs I remember were mentioned in twich streams. New carmageddon was suppose to be a platform which was to be further extended with more content.So it would make sense if next thing was indeed a DLC.

Another big thing mentioned in twich streams was workshop support, which could provide good solution for modding.

Over all i would wish for some big patch that first of all fixes that insane mountain of overlooked shit that got broken in CMD, but work in CR.. Then address shit that was always broken. and THEN would be good time for DLCs, but: "Would enough people care?"

Modders are leaving and some didn't even return in the first place. People are angry and concider carma a failure, spreading toxic shit everywhere making it even worse. So would DLC and patches even return some money to stainless? Would any of that shed better light on Carmageddon in the long run? Maybe it is good time for something like that NOW, when things like No man's sky were able to fix their reputation more or less. Maybe that's the new trend, and people will learn to be more forgiving.

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